34.法律常識宣導Legal Matters

94-12- (December 2005)

 王慧如採錄 (Recorded by Hui-Ru Wang)

董瑪女記音整理 (Transcribed by Maa-Neu Dong)

(排灣律師演說者) (Speaker a Paiwan lawyer) 藍色, in blue

(東清村, 海嶼口譯達悟語) (Yami interpreter Hai-Yu Zhang from Jiranomilek, Lanyu)紅色, in red

 

排灣律師先講,再由張海嶼翻達悟語達悟語在翻譯成中文,最後再轉翻英文

The Paiwan lawyer speaks first. This is then translated to the Yami by Hai-Yu Chang. The Yami is then translated to Chinese, and finally the English from the Chinese.

 

0.3

noka-lia-likey ko am, …………..,

小時候         

ni-maci-zavoz do aro a ipizang do-ylaod ory-a,

   ...混合              很多     漢人           台灣   那個

a mi-vat-vatek jira   ori  am, a ma-ka-kaday am pacia-zavoz-an jira an,

      讀書            他們 那個             逐項,逐件?             混合       他們

我很小的時候,, ….., 我跟很多的平地小孩一起唸書,

When I was very young,….., I studied with a lot of flatland (i.e., non-aboriginal) children.

17

在我十歲以前,我的部落, 我看不到平地人, 我是很快樂的排灣族

Before I was ten, in my tribe, I never saw flatland people. I was a very happy Paiwan.

noka-lialikey ko am, abo am-zavoz jiamen a ipeypizang,

  小時候                    沒有    混合        我們         漢人

ta ma-mimin namen a bonong namen do dang a amian do ili    namen,

   全部         我們        布農() 我們          當時                  村莊 我們

我小時候,我們的生活圈沒有平地人, 我們部落全是同族的布農族人,

(:bonong是布農族,而演說者本身為排灣人。譯者則可能認為老一輩或大多數的達悟人不知台灣還其它不同的原住民稱呼, 所以以大家所熟悉的族名(布農族)來翻譯台灣的原住民)

When I was young, there were no flatland (i.e., non-aborginal) people in my neighborhood. Our tribe consisted of only Bunun people of the same clan. (Note: bonong is the Bunun Tribe, while the speaker is Paiwan. The interpreter may have thought that the elderly people or most of the Yami did not know how to address other Taiwanese aboriginal tribes, so he used the familiar name (Bunun) to take the place of Taiwanese aborigines.)

0.32

十歲到二十歲, 我到台東學校去唸書, 但是剛剛好台東的學校還不是那麼好啦, 所以平地人都嫉妒我們有大學保加分,所以我那個時候,被平地人非常非常的瞧不起, 有歧視的存在,

I went to school in Taitung from when I was ten to twenty years old. However, the schools in Taitung were not very good, so the flatland people envied us for getting bonus points if we attended university.  As a result, at that time, we were looked down upon by the flatland people, who discriminated against us.

maci-zavoz namen rana mey-vilang a,

..混合        我們                 唸書

ka-paci-zavoz namen do ipey-pizang a mi-vilang am,

並與..混合         我們            漢人                  唸書

akma sio so pi-metdeh-en   da   yamen a ji    da   sne-snek-an,

                     視若孩同般   他們  我們     他們  看不起

ta  paka-bonong-en da yamen a  ji   da   sne-snek-an,

    視為原住民     他們  我們     他們     看不起

後來我們跟平地人混在一起唸書, 但是他們看我們是布農人(原住民), 所以都瞧不起我們,

Later on, we studied alongside the flatland people, but because we were of the Bunun tribe (aboriginal) they looked down on us.

1.05

我二十歲到三十歲的時候, 是人生最聰明, 最有活力的時候, 我開始向社會發展, 但是我的皮膚,我的身高, 我的口音, 就被平地人怎麼樣, 不給我機會,

Between twenty and thirty years old is the period of time where people are the smartest and have the most energy. I started to branch out in the society, but because of my skin color, height, and accent, the flatland people would look down on me and not give me a chance.

 

maka-veyvow ko na am, amian rana so ni-vilang-an ko am,

長大成人,獨立                                      讀過         

maci-zavoz ko na, aro rana o ka-tenng-an ko am,

  ...混合             很多              知道         

apia rana o ka-pi-vey-vat-vatek ko rana maci-zavoz jira,

很好                  唸書,就學                           ..混合    他們

am ji   da   pa-nadnad-a yaken, ta paka-bonong-en da yaken,

他們     尊重                       視為原住民       他們

am ori ji   da   manta-i niaken so vazey ko a pa-nizpi-en   da,

    他們                           工作        給賺錢機會  他們

ta   ji   da   pa-nadnad-a yaken am, ipanci da yaken a bonong.

他們     尊重                                 他們          布農族(原住民)

我們稍長之後,我繼續唸書, 也知道了很多事(懂事多了), 也已經能夠適應跟平地人一起唸書, 但仍然被瞧不起, 因為我是布農人(原住民), 所以不給我工作賺錢的機會, 因為我是布農人(原住民),他們瞧不起;

After we were a little older, I continued to study and learned a lot of things (had a lot more sense), and I had adapted to studying with the lowland people. However, I still felt discriminated against because I am a Bunun (aboriginal), and therefore they didn’t give me money-making work opportunities. Because I am a Bunun (aboriginal), they look down on me.

02.00

我三十歲到四十歲的時候, 命運的一個轉變, 原住民改變了, 原住民可以跟平地人走不一樣的路, 原住民可以和漢人過不一樣的生活, 就我現在, 活的非常的自在,

When I was between 30 years and 40 years old, fate took a dramatic turn, and the lives of aborigines changed. Aborigines could walk a different path from that of the flatland people, and have a different life style than that of the Hans. Now, I live freely without restraint.

am ya ma-ngay sicia-i-koa rana ya am,

          直到          現在              

ikongo do tamo tey-ma-so-sozi a   sancinosto     a, 

  什麼           我們    都非常兇           原住民(借詞?)

a ya ta    paci-angay-an  do pongso ya,

       我們       ..一起              島上   

ya tey-ma-so-sozi a ….paka-metdeh-an jinio am,

       都非常的                視若孩童般        你們

da rana pa-nadnad-en yamen, …ya maci-zavoz jira am,

他們          尊重               我們                  ...混合  他們

ya mian rana o vazay ko a rana.

                         工作 

直到現在, 由於我們原住民都很, .....,  我們才得到了公平的待遇, ...跟他們混在一起, 而我也有了工作.

Up until now, because we aboriginals are very mean..... we have finally gotten fair treatment. …..amongst them, and I have a job.

02.19

所以我今年四十歲, 我非常的珍惜, 我三十歲到四十歲的那個經歷, 原住民可以走自己的一條路, 只要在國家和原住民確立以後, 我們絕對可以走出自己的一條路來,

Therefore, now that I am 40 years old this year, I treasure the experience that I got from when I was thirty through forty very much. Aborigines can walk their own paths. After the country and aborigines have established a good relationship, they could establish their own paths.

am ori an, so ji   da   pey-ka-kaban-i so tao na do taiwang ito

               他們       差別待遇                       台灣    那個

a ta     paci-angay-an do pongso ya an,

   我們      ..一起             島上   

ta o tene-teneng tamo am, ya ji micia-kaban,

      智慧            我們                差別待遇

o da  ka-tenng-an am,   ta   ke-tenng-an saon am,

  他們  知道                    我們      知道

ori     ji   da   peycia-kaban-i sia an,

那樣 他們      差別待遇      

因此, 台灣不可以對我們及台灣的原住民有差別待遇, 因為我們的智慧不比他們差, 他們知道的, 我們也知道, 所以他們不可以對人有差別待遇的情形,
Therefore, Taiwan cannot treat us and aborigines in Taiwan differently from the standard because our intelligence is not any lower than the average Taiwanese. They know this, and we do too, so they can’t treat us differently compared to others.

02.50

接下來是跟大家介紹的是, 這次原住民族的基本的基礎跟理論, 要跟大家介紹一下,

The next issue that I am going to introduce to you, this time it is the basic foundation and theory of aboriginal peoples that I am going to introduce to you.

cia-na ori a, ipanci ko rana o ya ma-kdeng

 好了   那個     要說                     很重要的     

a yokoyokod sicia-i-koa ya jino an, 

    議題             現在        你們

好了, 接下來, 我現在要來談一個很重要的有關我們的議題,

Ok, next, I will discuss a very important issue about us.

03.03

第一個要介紹給你們的是, 主權的觀念,

The first issue that I am going to talk about is the idea of the sovereignty.

a o ya ko ni-manoma na  ipanci am,

                    最先的      要說

ma-kma so sang a, pan-sahad-an   takamo a,

                那樣      負責的,分內的     我們

sancinosto a pacia-ngay-an nio do pongso ya an.

   原住民            .. 一起       你們       島上  

首先我要說的是, 包含我們島上在內的原住民問題,

First of all, I’m going to talk about the problems that aborigines, including those on our island, face.

03.18

以前的觀念認為, 被日本人被中國人打敗, …所以我們的部落完全消失就應該結束了, 這是以前的觀念,

The idea in the past was that if we were defeated by the Chinese or by the Japanese, our village would have been completely…eliminated, and it would have been the end. This was what we thought in the past.

o tao a ya mak-ey-rey-ras a ya m-ai jiaten takamo ya am,

                  後來的                          我們    我們   

ya m-ai do pongso ya am, akma so Ipong a,  

                 島上                         日本

cikok ya am, no  sia  m-ai do jia am, da     na  ipanci    jinio am,

 中國           他們                   他們        ,告訢  你們

“ji    nio rana ng-ap-a o i-wa-walam nio a,

  你們                           習俗       你們

pang-ozay-an nio rana o i-wa-walam no ciokok, 

,依照        你們               習俗                 中國

pang-ozay-an nio rana o i-wa-walam no ipong”, koan da   yaten,

,依照        你們             習俗                  日本           他們  我們

關於一些後來加入(來到)我們生存空間, 來到我們島上的如日本人, 中國人等, 當他們來的時候, 他們會告訴你們說, “你們不要再承襲你們傳統的習俗, 要學習中國的習俗, 要學習日本人的習俗”,他們這樣對我們說

With regard to those people coming to us, to our island, such as Japanese, Chinese, etc., when they came, they would tell you, “you don’t need to follow your traditional conventions, and you had to learn Chinese customs and learn Japanese customs.” They said it to us like this.

03.45

但是現在的憲法不一樣, 憲法尊重個人的尊嚴, 特別是民族的尊嚴, 所以不能夠說, 我們以前被日本人,被中國人打敗, 我們的部落就沒有了, 我們部落的權利就沒有了, 不可以這樣子,

However, the present constitution is different. It respects everyone’s dignity, especially national dignity. So, you cannot say that when we were defeated by the Chinese or Japanese, our clan might be gone, and our clan’s rights might be gone. You cannot do that.”

am o yoko-yokod rana sicia-i-koa ya am,

        議題,議事               現今       

da     na pa-dket-en do dang a ma-kdeng a yoko-yokod ori an,

他們         登記                那裡        重要的           議題          那個

no m-ai kamo do ili     da no sancinosto

        你們      部落 他們        原住民

a pacia-ngay-an tamo a tao do pongso am,

     ..一起          我們               島上

pa-nadnad-en nio an o ha-hap-an da    sia no akma sang a,  

  要尊重           你們         做法         他們                那樣

pa-metdeh-en da o tao an”, ori     rana o ya d-om-ket do dang,

   視若孩童般  他們           那樣                      記上            那裡

但是當今的議題, 也就是在那裡記錄下來的重要議題, 你們若要到包含我們島上在內的原住民部落時你們的決定, 一定要尊重原住民”,像這些事情都有記載,

However, the current topic, which was an issue that was recorded there, is, “If you want to come to our tribes, including our island, you must respect the aboriginals in all of your decisions.” All of these things are put down in writing.

04.20

所以國家要尊重我們的主權,

Therefore, the country should respect our sovereignty.

am ori an, ika-noyong no seyvo ya,

              真正的            政府

a mapa-nadnad do kma jiaten tamo

      要尊重                      我們   我們

a pacia-ngay-an nio a tao do pongso an.

       ..一起        你們            島上

所以啊, 政府要尊重包括我們達悟族的原住民族,

Therefore, the government must respect the aborigines, including the Yami.

04.30

但是主權是一種最高的權利, 我們既然是中華民國的部份, 在這個中華民國裡頭, 不能夠有兩個主權, 那原住民的主權怎麼辦? 我們要把它轉換成另外一種形式,

However, sovereignty is a supreme right. Since we are part of the Republic of China, in the Republic of China, there should not be two sovereign entities. What happens then to the sovereignty of the aborigines? We have to change it to a different format.

am akma-n so sang a makaingpet no tao na do Taiwang am,

                      那樣       珍惜?                            台灣            

a pacia-ngay-an tamo do pongso ya am,

        .. 一起       我們         島上   

amian dang so pang-ozay-an rana an,

        那裡            可依据的

ta   jia to pey-kal-kaltang-a o vazey an,

         使混亂                   事情

ta amian so asa ka pang-ozay-an takamo 

                         可依据的    我們

a  asa a ma-kdeng a yokoyokod an.

           重要的           議題

像那樣很能保護連我們島上在內的台灣人(在台的原住民), 那裡頭有可依…, 我們不要把事情搞亂了, 因為那裡面一個很重要的, 我們要談的一個議題

If we do that, we probably can protect even the Taiwanese from our island (the aborigines in Taiwan). There are points that can be followed…. we must not mess things up, because there is an important issue that we’re going to discuss.  

06.01

要把它轉換成什麼呢? 第一個在政治上我們要把它轉換成政(?)治權,

What are we supposed to change it to? First, politically, we have to transform it to political autonomy.

am ori an, tamo rana panic-an no seyvo

            我們           要說             政府

a mangata         ma-kdeng a yokoyokod

   設立?指定?      重要的             議題

a om-aing jiaten takamo a pey-metdeh-en    da   tao ya

    屬於        我們    我們          視若孩童般的  他們  

pacia-ngay-an tamo a tao do pongso ya,   

   ..一起         我們                島上  

所以我們要求政府要為我們擬訂一個重要的事情…,

Therefore, we are asking the government to help us propose a very important plan.

 

06.19

第二在經濟上, 我們要有我們專屬經濟開發的權利跟國家的支持,

Second, economically, we should have our right to exclusive economic development while gaining national support.

o asa dang am, ipanci tamo do seyvo yan,

        那裡          要講  我們        政府  

o ka-pan-sahad    tamo   jia  an do makakaday a iey-hakow tamo am,

      處理,做好?       我們                   每一個             田地         我們

a ka-rako-an no wawa ito am, masaod na no nang am,

                 海上  那個           範圍內?        那個

yaten takamo am man-sahad do dang an, 

 我們     我們            處理,去做      那裡

ori o pakdengan takamo a ipanci do seyvo an,

那是    要求,專注   我們         要說         政府

另外呢, 我們要求政府, 讓我們自己管理族裡的事務, 不論是海上的,山上的一切,都要我們自己去管理.

In addition, we ask the government to let us manage affairs in our tribes. Whether it is on the sea or in the mountains, we should be able to manage it all ourselves.

 

06.42

第三, 這個土地不是日本人給我們的, 不是中國人給我們的, 所以我們土地要比其它的族群要更優越一點,

Third, this land was not given to us by the Japanese or the Chinese, so our land issue should be given a higher priority than that of other ethnic groups.

cia-na ori a, o asa do dang am,

 好了   那個              那裡

o tana rana do dang am akma so sang an, o tana rana ya am,

    土地               那裡                    那樣           土地       

ji   da     to mi-ney-nakm-an a picia-tari-tari-en an,

他們        隨意決定             切割,劃分

ta pa-nadnad-en da  pa o tao do pongso yan,

     要尊重       他們              島上    

剛才那些事呢就說到這裡至於土地的問題, 也絕不能讓他們隨意的決定, 必須尊重我們島上的人,

I will stop here with what I was just talking about. As for the issues of the land, we cannot let decisions be made randomly. Instead, they must respect the people on our island.

 

07.06

這個文化教育也是一樣,

This issue of culture and education is the same.

akma so sang a ipapareng da a i-wa-walam ta,

            那樣      做法,       他們    習俗            我們

a pi-vat-vatk-an do gako ya am, akma so sang an,

     唸書寫字處          學校                            那樣

ta pa-nadnad-en da an o akm-an so sang a tao do pongso ya,

   要尊重         他們                         那樣             島上   

akma jiamen a bono-bonong    do ilaod an,

         我們      布農(原住民族)        台灣

, 我們的傳統文化習俗, 學校等等也是如此, 他們一定要尊重蘭嶼的住民, 就像尊重在台灣的原住民一樣,

Also, our traditional customs and education are also like that. They must respect people living on Orchid Island, just as they respect the aborigines in Taiwan.

 

6.29

換句話說, 什麼叫尊重原住民的主權, 就是讓在國家裡頭, 像陳總統講的, 國中有國

In other words, what does respecting the sovereignty of aborigines mean? It means allowing, as President Chen said, there to be separate nations within the nation.

in a o pi-pipangay-an no nang am,

            意思                   那個

o sancinosto a akm-an jiaten takamo ya

     原住民族                 我們    我們  

a da  paka-metdeh-en ya am,

  他們   視若孩童般的 

mi-yangay a ka no pan-pa-nirsirng-en a ..,

    一樣                        領袖,代表

mi-yanga-ngey o ka-kar-karang-an da am,

   都一樣                                          他們

ka-iza-izay do dang ang, abo   dang o    an-anak            a,

    偉大                那裡           沒有 那裡     較小的,年幼的

abo   dang o ma-ve-veveh a, abo dang o pi-metdeh-en,

沒有 那裡            低矮的         沒有  那裡     視同孩童的

ta to mi-yangey, am ori o pi-pipangay-an na.

   一樣             那樣        意思                       

這是什麼意思呢? 關於他們看不起的原住民族呢, (跟漢人的)領袖並齊,那裡沒有所謂的小,沒有所謂的低,也沒有所謂的被人貶低等等,大家都一律平等,就是這個意思,

What does this mean? As for how they look down on aborigines, we should enjoy equal status (with the Hans). There shouldn’t be any reference to the so-called smaller or so-called inferior, or any so-called belittling. Everyone is equal. This is what we mean.

 

07.00

基於這個國中有國的觀念, 我們憲法三章開闢第二理論, 校正國與國的關係,

Based on the idea of “a nation within a nation”, the third chapter of our constitution opens up a second theory, which rectifies the relation between nations. 

ori an namen  pey-ras-en do dang a pa-dket-en,

那樣      我們     後來的            那裡        登記

mi-yangey o ha-hap-an nio   sia 國家ka no da   pey-metdeh-en yan,

 一樣               方法,    你們                   他們   視同孩童的     

ta abo dang o  m-aizay a, ji   aizay o akma sang a pey-metdeh-en a, 

  那裡       很偉大       偉大              那樣     視同孩童的

namen ma-iza-izay a seyvo,  ji   nio  koan-a sang,

我們       較偉大             政府   你們         那樣

ta to    nio   pey-yanga-ngay-a o ha-hap-an   nio   sia an,

你們      都一律不等              方法,做法  你們 

am ori o ni-padket da   rana do dang,

  那樣    已登記   他們                那裡

do ka-pa-nadnad da rana jiaten takamo,

        要公平看待  他們        我們    我們

這些呢,就是我們正要增訂的, 把國家和被貶低的(原住民?)同等看待, 因為那裡沒有階級的高低; 不要說我們政府是最大的”, 因為你們對待我們要一視同仁, 這就是增訂的條文.

This is what we’re trying to establish – equal treatment for the people of the nation and the people who are discriminated against (aborigines?), because then there is no difference in social class. Don’t say “Our government is biggest” because you should treat us equally without discrimination. This is the clause that should be added.

 

7.52

這一次原住民專章的重點, 就是國與國之間的關係, 什麼叫國與國之間的關係? 就是要讓原住民從國家的政治經濟裡頭完全的解放, 讓原住民的政()治不是跟一般的自治這一類的國家有非常高的自治主權跟自主權,

The focus of the special chapter on aborigines is the relationship between peeudo-nations. What does the relationship between pseudo-nations mean? It sets aborigines free from the political economy of the country, and sets aboriginal politics (autonomy) apart from the more regular autonomy of separate countries which have high autonomy and self rule.

o ya pa pa-dket-en do dang am,

             登記               那裡

ipanci   pa do seyvo ito o ka-pi-yangay na

 要告訴        政府  那個      一樣           

ka no seyvo a taiwang ito a,

        政府       台灣     那個

ka no aro a bono-bonong  a 

       很多   布農(原住民族)

pacia-ngay-an takamo do pongso ya mi-yang-angay,

  ...一樣         我們               島上            都一樣的

o  ha-hap-an da     so vazay da am, mi nio   ahes-en pa sira,

     做法        他們        事情  他們       你們  詢問       他們

ka-porong na rana do hahapan nio sia,

然後確定                     做法      你們 

ori o namen pa-dket-en rana do dang,

那個   我們     登記                         那裡 

ta  to   da   mi-ney-nakm-an o ha-hap-an da so vazay da

他們    隨意決定                做法        他們     事情  他們

no kma-n so sang a tey-sa ka sancinosto, 

                    那個    每一         原住民族

a ji   da   sne-snek-an a tao,

  他們   看不起          

在那裡增訂的條文的重點是, 希望台灣的政府和各原住民族一樣平等, 要請教他們要怎麼來修訂,然後確定, 不能讓他們隨意主張代表原住民(發聲?) ,

The key point of adding this clause is the hope that the government of Taiwan will recognize aborigines as equal. We need to ask them to revise the clause, and then finalize it, so they cannot misrepresent the aborigines.

 

08.20

以前很多人很担心原住民搞自治, 到底是跟縣同級, 還是跟省同級, 在行政院以下,但是我們這一次原住民專章徹底的解放, 我們不是在縣的階層, 也不是在省的階層也不是在這個行政院的階層, 我們的每一個自治都要跟總統簽約, 像國際條約一樣,

In the past, a lot of people were worried that aborigines would try to gain autonomy. Would the autonomy be equivalent to a county or a province? Under the new clause to be implimented by the Executive Yuan we would be completely free. We aren’t at the same level as a county, nor a province, and are not part of the Executive Yuan. Every tribe that wants autonomy must sign a contract with the president, just like an international treaty. 

nokakoa am, pi-pili-pili-in da am,

以前                   互相推拖    他們

pika-gci-gcin-en da o ha-ha-hap-an  da    sia,

分層的            他們     做法              他們

manngo a, ma-iza-izay o  老百姓a tao do pongso ya an?

  如何              較偉大                                     島上 

no ma-iza-izay o gokosio? Ma-iza-izay o 縣政府ito an,

     較偉大            鄉公所     較偉大                        那個

no ma-iza-izay o tao do pongso?

    較偉大                   島上

ma-niring namen rana am,

               我們

ji   nio ngoan-a sang o   ka-gci-gcin-an na,

你們            那樣           分層的        

ta to mi-yangay o pa-nadnad-an nio  so picey-li-li-an na am,

一樣                   尊重的        你們           各部落     

picia-maha-mahattaw-an na am,

各島                         

 picia-cipo-cipon-an na, no kamoan  nio   nira am,

         各團體                         有歉意  你們 他們

ori    o ji   da   paka-iza-izay-i, ta to tamo mi-yanga-ngey,

那樣  他們      自以為偉大    我們    都一樣

以前的時候, 他們互相推拖(), 對不同的單位(?)有不同的對待, 你們說, 島上的老百姓大,還是鄉公所大?是縣政府大, 或者島上的人大? 我們說, 你們不要這樣分級看待, 你們應該對每鄉市鎮, 部落,島嶼都要公平對待, 不可有自我為大的想法,

In the past, they evaded taking responsibilities, and different organizations (people?) received different treatment. Tell me whether the citizens on the island or the Township Administration Office are more important? Is the county government or the people on the island more important? We suggest that you do not look at us as different classes. Instead, you should treat each town, county, township, tribe, and island equally. You should not have a self-important attitude.

 

09:26

第三要跟大家介紹的是, 歷史性的補償的觀念這個怎麼講, 比如說, 國家現代化的過程, 國家對於原住民族, 永遠都不公平, 第一個,國家的投資很少, 第二個, 限制我們很多的權利, 第三個, 企業的投資也不多, 所以造成了在現代化的過程, 我們原住民族永遠都趕不上主流社會, 這個趕不上不是我們的錯, 這是歷史的一個錯誤, 這個錯誤要靠憲法來把它加以彌補;

The third issue I would like to address is the idea of historical compensation. How should I explain this? For example, while a country is developing, it is always unfair towards its aborigines. First, the country has very little investment; second, many of our rights are limited; third, there is very little investment by businesses, and therefore during modernization we as aborigines can never catch up with the mainstream society. Not being able to keep up is not our fault, but a mistake in history. This mistake has to…. needs to be fixed.

asa do dang a ika-ziak   namen a ipanci namen do seyvo am,

        那裡       多嘴的   我們          要說    我們          政府

pa-dket-en da do ma-kdeng a yoko-yokod ori am,

 登記          他們       重要的           議題            那個

o ni-pia na am,  ji    to    ngimong-an a ipi-ni-nizpi

    最好            一直     想辦法              賺錢的

o mian do ka-laod-an na am, amian do tey-sa ka   ili   ori an,

               遠處,台灣               ,                  部落 那個

ta akm-i pi-kalitay-in nio o pi-nizpi-an an,

            擴散           你們     賺錢處         

ta   ori  rana o i-pi-yanga-ngay tamo rana so bso-bsoy an,

那樣                  都一樣            我們                  飽肚

i-pi-yanga-ngay tamo so nizpi an,

 都一樣                  我們       

abo o aro-aro so nizpi a, abo o aper-pereh so nizpi a,

沒有    較多                    沒有     較少               

to tamo rana pi-yanga-ngay-a ori,

  你們             都一樣               那個

ori namen pa-dket-en pa  ori  do ..,

那個 我們      登記         那個

da     ka-pi-metdeh jiaten takamo a sancinosto ya,

他們     因看不起       我們   我們           原住民族 

還有一個,我們特別要跟政府說的, 要增訂的重要議題呢, 最好是,不要將所有賺錢的機會(工具?)全攬下來(?), 台灣有的,其它的地方也要有, 應該要把錢平均分配給各地方, 這樣,大家才會一樣飽,一樣有錢, 也就不會有有錢的有錢,沒錢的沒錢的貧富差距, 這是我們原住民要增訂的一個條文,

Another thing that we want the government to know, about the important topic of what clause to add – it would be best if money-making opportunities (tools?) were not all held back(?). What Taiwan has, people in other places should have as well. Money should be distributed equally around. This way, everybody will be equally satisfied and equally rich, and there would not be a “the rich will always be rich and the poor will always be poor” gap between the rich and the poor. This is the clause that we aborigines want added.

 

10.32

這種歷史性的補償, 最主要表現於原住民族在於自然資源的權利,

This kind of historical compensation is mainly manifested in the aborigines’ right to natural resources.

ori     ori a, o ni-ma-kdeng na am,

那樣 那個         最重要的     

akma so i-hey-hakow tamo ya,

                田地         我們 

pan-san-sahad-an takamo ya an,

    份內事                  我們   

ori   o ni-ma-kdeng na pa-nadnad-an da    jiaten takmo an, no seyvo an.

那個       最重要的         要尊重的      他們  我們   我們                政府

以上所說的是 件事, 另外一個很重要的事情呢, 就是有關我們的田地問題,還有歸我們管理的一切, 這些議題,都是希望政府要重視的問題,

What was said above is all one issue. Another important issue is related to the problem of our fields and everything else that belongs to us. These topics are the problems that we wish the government will address.

 

10.49

因為以前, 政府沒事就限制原住民傳統的一些自然資源的權利, 比如說狩獵,捕魚, 還是野生的植物,

In the past, the government restricted some rights of the aborigines to traditional natural resources, such as hunting, fishing, or picking wild plants.

nokakoa am,  aro o az-azat-an   da     jiaten,

以前               很多    阻礙,擋位   他們   我們

aro o panci da,    oya am, seyvo rana ya,

很多        他們  這個        政府          

ji nio   ng-ap-a rana ya, oya am, gokosio ya,

你們                     這個        鄉公所 

oya am, seyvo  ya,  ji  nio  rana hakaw-ei ya,

這個          政府    你們         闢耕        

ya aro rana o ya da    pa-key-rey-ras-en

    很多                他們      後來的

a ya kmi  da   polcingen  jiaten tamo

            他們  扯下,搶奪  我們   我們

a pi-mey-masaod-an  ta   am, pan-sahad-an takmo.

           財產                   我們          去做,處理   我們

以前, 我們受到很多的限制, 一下說,這是政府的, 你們不可以拿(佔用),一下又說這是鄉公所的, 這是政府的,不可以開闢成田, 他們剝奪我們的權利, 剝奪我們原本的土地,

In the past, we were given a lot of limitations. Sometimes, they said that it belonged to the government, and we could not take (take as our own) it, other times they said that it belonged to the Township Administration Office, and therefore belonged to the government, so we could not use it as farmland. They deprived us of our rights, and took away the land that was originally ours.

 

11.21

但是政府需要原住民族地區資源的時候, 永遠不會爭取當地原住民的同意, 而且放任財團投資, 最後財團賺了錢, 但是環保的災難卻留給我們原住民,

However, when the government needs resources from the aboriginal areas, they never ask the local aborigines for consent, but allow large businesses to invest without restrictions. In the end, the businesses make money, but the environmental impact from the pollution is left for us aborigines. 

ano ya mian so da     hap-en a …. Am,

                     他們             

da     na todey ma-mnek-i a, da    ka-ngay ma-pa-tnek

他們               霸占             他們   然後去     插立

do da    paka-ire-yras-en a i-ley-lamnay  da  no  nakem,

     他們   後來的                      使安心的,安心用的

am o tao rana do pongso am, a mapey-hakaw-en sia am,

                         島上                  ()              

tamo rana to nita sira a ya mapi-ma-pia   no kma sia

我們             他們         做為非常好的...        

a ya ipi-nizpi am, ori     o ta    raten a kman so sang

          賺錢用          那樣    我們 不許                那樣

a vazay no seyvo an.

     事情        政府

當他們有什麼需要的時候, 他們就直接去佔有, 直接登記為己有, 但是原是那塊土地的所有權人也就是我們島上的人, 也只有眼睜睜的看著那些原屬於我們的東西, 被人去做為賺錢的工具, 我們反對政府這樣的惡性行為,

When they need something, they just go take it over and register it as their own. However, the original owners of the land - the people on the island - can only watch helplessly as what used to belong to us is taken away by someone else as a tool for making money. We object to such malignant behavior.

 

11.56

所以原住民很窮, 比不上平地人有錢, 但不是我們的錯,是在整個歷史發展的過程裡頭發生問題, 而這個問題必須要用政策加以補償

Therefore, aborigines are very poor compared with flatland people. However, it is not our fault, but a problem that occurred in the entire development of history, and this problem must be compensated through new policies,  

am ori an, bekena  k-abo-abo   no nizpi takamo am,

           不是     一點也沒有                我們

k-abo-abo no teneng takamo an,

一點也沒         智慧       我們

ta      sira rana o ya mapicia-kaban jiaten takamo an,

而是 他們                    差別待遇          我們   我們

do mabnek a ya nak-nakm-an sia an,  

       所謂的               想起來       

所以, 如此想來, 不是我們沒有錢, 不是我們沒有智慧, 而是他們對我們有著不公平的對待,

Therefore, if we think about it, it is not that we have no money or that we have no intelligence, but that they have treated us unfairly.

 

12.22

第三部份啊, 我們介紹憲法裡頭的原住民跟國家的關係, 到底原住民對國家有什麼權利,

The third part that we are going to introduce is the relationship between the aborigines and the country in the constitution. What right do the aborigines have in the country? 

cia-na ori a, ma-lavat takamo rana  

好了  那個      提到       我們

o akma jiaten tamo ya tao ya 老百姓ya,

           我們        

ka no國家ka no ni-ma-karang na do ha-hap-an sia,

                          最高的                  做法       

ma-kongo sira   ori   a mi-hananeng?

要怎麼做   他們 那些       取得平衡

好了,接下來, 我們要談到另外一個議題, 就是我們老百姓, 國家和國家的最高機關要如何取得平衡?

Ok, next we will discuss another topic, namely, how do we balance ordinary people, the country, and supreme organization of the country?

 

12.43

以前的觀念是, 國家常常問原住民…, 原住民替國家做了麼? 現在的觀念不是, 現在要反過來, 國家對我們原住民做了什麼?

In the past, they had an idea about what the aborigines did for the country. Nowadays, that’s not the case. Now it is the opposite – what has the country done to us, the aborigines? 

nokakoa ipanci da, ma-sanib da  ipanci am,

以前               他們   經常     他們 

ikongo o vazay nio a aro a   bonobonong     ya a,

 什麼        事情  你們  很多     布農(原住民)

ikongo nio paka-sido-sidong-an so seyvo?

 什麼   你們    幫助了                           政府

Ori     ori   ma-sanib da    ipanci  nokakoa,

那個 那樣     經常     他們               以前

am siciakoa rana ya am, tamo ipanci am,

     現今                       我們   

ikongo a vazay nio a seyvo do akma jiame-en?

  什麼        事情 你們   政府                我們

ori rana o ya tamo ipanci siciaikoa ya a pi-metdeh-en da   tao ya an,

那個                 我們   要說      現今             視若孩童的   他們   

以前,他們常說, 你們這些布農人(指原住民)做什麼事? 你們對政府有什麼幫助? 這是以前他們常提的問題, 但是現在呢, 我們反過來要問, 你們對我們做了什麼事?這就是我們現在常提的事情,

In the past, they often said, what have you, the Bununs (referring to aborigines), done? What have you done to help the government? This is the question that they often brought up in the past, but now we want turn the question around – What have you done for us? This is what we often bring up now. 

 

13.15

, 那我現在一一介紹憲法原住民的權利, 第一個要跟大家介紹的是自然資源的權利,

OK, now I’m going to introduce the aborigines’ rights in the constitution one by one. The first one that I am going to talk about is the right to natural resources.

cia-na ori a, o yako ipanci jinio siciaikoa ya

好了    那個             要說  你們    現在

akma so paci-ngay-an tamo do seyvo a aro a ipey-pizang ito am,

              ..一起        我們         政府    很多       漢人        那些

akma sang a pan-san-sahad-an takamo an,

       那樣       要處理的              我們

好了, 我現在要告訴你們的是, 包括我們原住民以及漢人在內的權利,

All right, what I’m about to tell you now is the rights of the aborigines and the Hans.

 

13.34

原住民對於自然的權利, 表現在, 原住民按照它的自治的程度, 然後來自己決定自然資源的使用方法,

The aborigines’ right to nature is based on its autonomy, allowing aborigines to determine how to use their natural resources.

o ni-apia na am,

    最好     

to    ta   mang-ozayi o  lisanan ta     teysa ka mocimot no ..,

我們   依照                 離開    我們 每一        領域,空地?

sira   wri an, am-gazagaz so mabneka ha-ha-hap-an ta sia am,

他們 那些         數算                  所謂的        做法          我們

beken a seyvo a beken a teysa ka tao

不是         政府      不是      每一      

mey ma-mne-mnek do pa-mne-mnek-an da

         指定                         指定的             他們

akma sang a teysa ka ciponan a pacia-ngay-an nio

       那樣     每一        團體?         ..一樣        你們

a tao do pongso ya an, ta bekena sira o ma-mnek jia an,

            島上                不是  他們      指定      

ta       inio an, yaten a mapey-hakaw-an sia ma-mnek jia, 

而是 你們                  ()                     指定     

man-san-sahad jia an, ori o ma-mne-mnek jia am,

      處理                     那是       指定               

ori    o amizng-en da   ori.

那個      要聽        他們 那些

最好的情形是, 我們依照., 數算我們所需的…., 而不是政府,也不是個人來做決定, 像我們所屬的原住民團體也是如此, 因為…..也不是由他們決定,而是由你們(島上的人)來決定, 是由地主, 有主權的我們來決定, 他們要聽這些話,

The best situation is if we follow….. if we figure out what we need…. instead of  the government or individuals making the decision for us. The aboriginal organizations that we are affiliated with are the same, because… it is not up to them but to you (the people on the island) to make decisions. The landlords have the sovereignty to make decisions, and they need to listen.

 

14.15

從國家限制原住民不能夠使用自然資源的時候, 國家一定要補償, 因為原住民做了特別的犠牲,

If a country limits the use of natural resources by aborigines, the country must compensate them because the aborigines have made a great sacrifice.

o yamen ipanci am, no mi nio   ha-hap-en

     我們    要說的          你們 

o pan-san-sahad-an nio a akma jiamen

       處理                    你們          我們

a nio   pi-metdeh-en ya am, amian dang so nginna-n nio an,

  你們     視若孩童的                       那裡         交易     你們

mapa-toro kamo so nizpi a,  ji    nio rana to mimin-a  ha-hap-en an,

  償付         你們                   你們              全部    

ta no ha-hap-en nio am, amian so toro-an nio am,

              你們                      給付     你們

toro-an nio o akma sang  a   nio   ni-ha-hap a

給付        你們        那樣     你們       已拿的    

aro         a  pi-mi-masaod-an namen am, i-hey-hakaw namen an,

很多的            財產                  我們                 田產           我們

ori rana o   d-om-ked do dang a ipanci do seyvo a,

那是               記錄               那裡     要說         政府

a ka   ji   da   mapicia-kaban-an so …  tao an.

    他們    差別待遇                         

我們要說的是, 當你們, 或我們被人看不起的(受到不公平待遇的)要取得你們的主()權的時候, 你們要給錢, 要賠償, 你不可以全都拿去, 因為你們若想要取得的時候,你們必須要給錢, 你們跟我們拿的那些東西如田地等都要付錢, 這些都有記錄在給政府的資料裡, 這樣他們就不會對某些團體做不公平的待遇,

What we want to say is that when we receive unfair treatment, when those people who look down on us want to take away your sovereign rights (property rights), they have to pay for it, give some kind of compensation, and cannot take it all away. If you want to take something away, you must pay for it. You must pay for the things that you take from us just like you pay for farmland. Also, this transaction must be recorded in government documents. This way cerntain groups cannot treat us unfairly.

 

14.53

當國家或者是財團到原住民地區開發自然資源的時候, 利益要跟原住民一起分享,

When the country or a financial group goes to aboriginal areas to develop natural resources, the benefits should be shared with aborigines.

ori      ori a, ano mian so pi-nizpi-an    da,

那是 那個                    賺錢的機會 他們

o ya ma-te-teneng a ya mi-ni-nizpi a aro a ipey-pizang ito a

              很會的                   賺錢            很多         漢人      那個

a ma-hap so pan-san-sahad-an takamo am, 

                     份內的事               我們

pi-vonong-en ta an, ta o tana   na am yaten a tao do pongso a,

    均分            我們        土地            我們             島上

bekena tana   sira   ori,    ta  ma-key-rey-ras a,

  不是    土地  他們 那個       後來的

no maka-nizpi sira am, pi-vonong-en takamo

     賺到錢      他們           均分             我們

a pi-atay-in takamo an, ta    ori o apia an,  

     均分           我們            那樣    

am ori o namen ika-ziak a pa-dket-en

         我們     多嘴            登記

do ma-kma sang a ma-kdeng a yoko-yokod no seyvo ya an.

                 那樣       重要的           議題                  政府 

另外呢,如果他們有賺錢的地方(工作), 那些很會賺錢的, 拿我們土地(?)的那些漢人呢, 我們要平分, 因為土地是我們島上的人所擁有的, 土地不是他們的因此他們賺到錢的時候, 我們要平分才對, 這是我們覺得很重要的議題, 特別提出來並做記錄的事情,

In addition, if they have places (work) to make money, those jobs produce a lot of revenue, and the Hans who take our land(? ), we want them to share an equal portion with us. The land belongs to the people on our island, not them, so when they make money, we want the dividends to be split evenly. This is an issue that we feel strongly about, so we are specially bringing it up and writing it down.

 

15.25

第二要跟大家介紹的是優越的土地的權利,

The second thing that I want to talk about is the superior right to the land

cia-na ori a, ma-lavat tamo rana o tana na an.

好了    那個     提到      我們              土地

好啦, 現在,我們來談談土地的問題,

Well, now, let's talk about the problems about the land,

 

15.33

原住民在整個台灣的經濟發展, 要錢沒有錢, 要技術沒有技術, 只剩下土地而已,

In the entire development of the Taiwanese economy, do the aborigines have money? Technology? All we have is land.

yaten tamo rana ya am, tana   abo o nizpi takamo a,

我們   我們                    即使 沒有           我們

ya abo o ya ma-ka-kaday jiaten tamo

沒有              每一個         我們   我們

a ya abo tamo paci-angay-an do aro a deh-dehdeh a ipey-pizang,

    沒有 我們      ..相比            很多       外地人               漢人               

am o tamo paic-angay-an jira am, tamo paci-kto-an jira am,

       我們     ..相比        他們       我們     ..同等   他們

ya mian so i-hey-hakaw tamo am, pan-sahad--an tamo an,

                    田地            我們              份內事          我們

我們呢, 即使我們沒有錢,沒有很多的財富, 我們什麼都比不上漢人, 但是我們可以跟他們比的, 跟他們一樣的是, 我們有田地,

What about us? Even if we have no money, very little wealth, and have nothing to compare with the Hans, but there is one thing that we have to compare with them, something that is the same as the Hans– we have farmland.

 

15.57

但是原住民的土地能夠拿去賣嗎? 賣了, 整民族就沒了,

However, can the aborigines sell their land?  If they sold it, the whole tribe would die out.

 

am o pan-sahad-an tamo a ni-hakaw-an tamo am,

           份內事        我們         田地           我們

ya ji ma-nazang-an ori,   ta  si ipa-nazang tamo am,

          可賣            那個      賣掉         我們

tosia rana o velek   ta   a?

 不要              肚子 我們

但是我們擁有的土地不能賣, 因為我們若賣掉了, 我們的肚子怎麼辦(沒土地就沒得吃)?

However, the land that we have can't be sold, because if we sell, what will happen to our stomaches (having no land means nothing to eat)?

 

19.10

既然原住民的土地不能够賣, 就不能够提高它的價值啊, 我們常常懷疑, 為什麼原住民保留地一平方才一仟多塊, 你看平地人一平方至少要四五萬塊錢以上,

Since the land owned by the aborigines can't be sold, then one cannot raise its value. We often wonder why a square plot of land on the aboriginal reservations is worth only about one thousand dollars, whereas the same amount of land owned by flatland people is worth at least forty or fifty thousand dollars.

na picia-kaban-an o tana na, o tana  na jinio am,

     差別待遇           土地      土地  你們

akmey maci-atay a abo so ngina-ngina,

             廢物        沒有           價值

akmi ya  ji angina, ipanci da akmi maci-aci-atay isio,

              值錢          他們              廢物       

a jira am, o i-hey-hakaw da   no ipizang am, 

   他們             田地           他們       漢人

ya liket a tana na am, ya  ji  atenng-i rana o ngina-ngina na

      很小    土地                  知道                     價值         

no kma so sang am, da   picia-kaban-en,

             那樣      他們  差別待遇,有落差

所以這個土地就有差別了, 你們的土地呢, 一點價值都沒有, 沒什麼價值, 就是人說的廢物一樣沒價值, 但是他們漢人的田地呢, 就是小小的也是無價, 因此他們對於土地的處理方式就有很大的差別,

Therefore there is a difference between the lands. Your land has no value at all. It has no value, just like they like to say, it has as much value as trash. However, the fields owned by the Han, even the small ones, are priceless, so they treat the land very differently. 

 

16.43

所以原住民的土地, 交換的價值就是買賣的價格很低, 但是使用的價值很高, 比如說, 一個田要種稻米可以種很好的田, 有觀光資源的土地, 可以發展很好的觀光業的發展

Therefore, land owned by aborigines, even though the sales price or trading price is very low, its value is very high. For example, a field can be used to plant rice and become a very good rice field, while land which has tourism resources can be developed for the tourism industry.

o tana  ya am, aro o angay-an no nang,

    土地         很多    益處             那個

ta  pi-moa-moa-n ori am, pa-tnek-an ori so rako a vahey ya,

     菜園,果園      那個       建蓋         那個     大的     房子  

ici-rara da so aro a dehdeh a do dang a mi-linga-lingay am,

  帶來  他們   很多     外地人         那裡          觀光

picia-kaban-an no …,

   差別待遇  

picia-tar-tark-an no ngina-ngina-n na sia no tana na ya.

    各種不同的                  買賣                    土地 

這個土地啊, 很多的用處, 可以種果樹, 可以蓋大樓, 也可以發展為(帶來)觀光的用途, 所以土地可以拿來做各式各樣的用途,

This land has many different functions: it can be used to plant fruit trees, build buildings, and be developed for (bring in) tourism. Therefore, lands can be used for various purposes. 

 

17.11

所謂優越的土地權利, 不只是保護你的所有權, 而且你基於這個土地, 你可以從社會獲得資金, 技術的很優越的權利,

The so-called right of superior land not only can protect your ownership, but you also can obtain funds and technology from society because of this land, so it is a very superior right.

a ori am, o ika-ziak do dang am,

   那個          多嘴            那裡

tana mian so tana namen a,

即使             土地  我們

tana mian so sancinosto a paci-angay-an  ta   tao do pongso ya am,

土地              原住民族       ..一樣        我們          島上    

ya abo namen y-amaog sia,

沒有   我們     製造     

ya abo namen ipi-valiw sia ra-rako a vahey am,

沒有   我們      使變成      大的         房杛

namen i-pareng sia i-paka-nizpi namen,

 我們                     可賺到錢     我們

ta yabo o nizpi namen, am ori namen pa-dket-en do dang a,

沒有            我們         我們       登記                那裡

 iyan na no nizpi a i-paka-sidong ta

                         可幫助       我們

so ji maka-nizpi a paka-n-anak-en da

        賺到錢            貧窮,弱勢者   他們

akma jiaten tamo  ya tao do pongso an.

       我們    我們             島上

像這些, 都是要提出來講的, 雖然我們有土地, 雖然有原民會(?), 我們沒有資本來運用土地, 我們沒有錢可蓋大樓, 或者是可用以賺錢的東西, 這些就是我們要提出來向政府爭取的事情; 如此我們才有錢來幫助那些需要幫助的,比如像我們島上的人,

All of these topics, we must bring up to discuss. Even though we have land and have a Counsel of Indigenous Peoples(?),we have no capital to make use of the land, nor money for building, nor any way to make money. This is what we are trying to make the government aware of. Then, we will have money to help those who need help, such as the people on our island.

 

17.49

以前我們要開發土地, 以前我們要開發事業的時候, 我們都在學習漢人, 向銀行貸款,

In the past, when we wanted to develop the land, or we wanted to develop a business, we copied the Hans, and asked for a loan from a bank.

nokakoa am, no mian so amowg-en takamo am,

  以前                              創造          我們

abo pang-ap-an takamo so nizpi am,

沒有   可拿...    我們           

sira am amian so mi  da   paci-ami-an so nizpi am,

他們                    他們      ...           

 jiaten takamo am abo jiaten takamo.

 我們     我們          沒有 我們    我們

以前, 當我們想要做什麼事情的時候, 我們沒有地方要錢(貸款), 但他們有可貸款的地方, 我們沒有,

In the past, when we wanted to do anything, we had no place to ask for money (get a loan). They have places to borrow money, not us.

 

18.07

但是貸款是高度資本主義的東西, 我們一下從部落生活到一般的主流社會的生活的時候, 我們沒有辦法好好處理貸款這個問題,

But loans are a product of capitalism. When our tribe suddenly shifted to mainstream lifestyle, we had no idea how to deal with the problem of loans.

ano ya mian so tao a ya ni-ma-mood pa so nizpi

                                   借了                    

a yamaog so vahay da am, pa-na-nazang-an am,

      建造           房子 他們            商店

da    na ji     a-toro-i, ta   yabo o da pang-ap-an so nizpi,

他們     無法  償還        沒有   他們    ...          

do kma so sang a pi-metdeh-en da o tao ya, 

               那樣          看不起       他們   

當有人去借錢蓋房子或商店的時候, 他們都沒有辦法償還, 因為他們沒有可貸款的地方, 像這些都是他們對待達悟人不公平的地方,

When someone went to borrow money to build a house or a shop, they had no way to repay it because there were no banks to get loans. This type of situation shows how the Yami are treated unfairly.

 

18.32

再加上原住民土地的買賣價值很低, 基本上你也貸不了多少錢,

Moreover, the value of the aboriginal land is very low, so you couldn’t borrow much anyway.

ji     ngoan  so sang a, no tamo ipamalit o  akma sang

不是    這樣        那樣        我們    換取

a tamo ipanci a ka-pa-mood  tamo so nizpi

   我們                                 我們        

do pa-mo-mood-an so nizpi am,

                              

 da      ji mantan yaten so nizpi, ta koan da am,

 他們            我們                  他們

yabo nio ang-angay-an, yabo na ang-angay-an no i-hey-hakaw nio,

  沒有 你們    益處              沒有     益處                         水地           你們

ta ya kmi macia-ciatay” koan da rana yaten,

                 廢物              他們           我們

不僅如此, 當我們用那個(土地?)跟銀行來貸款的時候, 他們也不貸款給我們, 因為他們說, “你們沒有用, 你們的土地沒有價值,像廢物一樣毫無價值可言

Moreover, when we use that (land? ) to get a loan, they don’t grant the loan to us because they say, "You are useless, and your land has no value, just like trash. " 

 

18.55

跟你們講一個屏東縣的一個笑話,

Let me tell you a joke from the Pingdong County.

ipanci ko pala jinio an, o asa ka vazay do pintong an, koan na.

                  你們                    事情          屏東               

我講給你們聽聽看, 他說, 屏東有一家,

Let me tell you something. He said, in Pingdong, there is a house.

 

19.05

屏東的原住民(代書?)一致認為十三甲的保留地, 銀行只能夠核貸十萬塊錢,

The aborigines in Pingdong (agents?) unanimously think for a reservation of 13 (hectares?) the bank can only give a loan of 100,000 dollars. 

koan da    nira do pintong ito am,

    他們 他們          屏東    那裡

tana  to   nio ma-nazang-an o rako a pongso nio    ori

即使 你們                                    島國   你們  那個

do pintong a bono-bonong    sira am,

       屏東        布農(原住民) 等等

apira o ngina nang,

 多少      價錢  那個

jiomanging koan da no ipey-pizang,

    十萬              他們          漢人

屏東人說, 即便是你們賣掉整個屏東原住民的土地(居住處),但值多少? 漢人說十萬塊錢而已啦,

The people in Pingdong said that even if you sold all the aboriginal land in Pingdong (residential areas), how much is its value?  The Hans said only 100,000 dollars.

 

19:23

我們原住民都很樂觀, 所以貸款當天,很高興有貸到十萬塊錢, 所以就拿去喝酒, 就只剩下八萬塊錢,

We aborigines are very optimistic, so when we were granted a loan of 100,000 dollars, we were very glad to have gotten a loan on that day. Therefore we took it to drink alcohol, after which we had only 80,000 dollars left.

karahan am, m-amizing da    ori o jiomanging

  後來                   聽到    他們 那個       十萬

o ngina na no tana   ori   a ha-hakaw-an  da    ori am,

    價錢          土地 那個         田地         他們 那個

to    da rana ma-nazang-an ori a,

他們               賣掉            那個

ka-jiomanging na no ni-ha-hap da,

就只有十萬元             拿到的  他們

karahan  am, ka-paka-hap  da    so nizpi ori am,

 後來                   一拿到        他們             那個

mi da rana ika-limo-limot  a iyo-yop rana nira ori a,

他們           圍成一圈            喝酒用          他們 那些

後來呢, 他們一聽到土地價值有十萬元就賣掉了, 他們得到了十萬元, 他們拿到十萬元之後, 就三五成群的圍在一起喝起酒來了,

Later on, as soon as they found out the land was sold for 100,000 dollars, and they had 100,000 dollars, they took the 100,000 dollars and went in groups to drink.

 

19.49

土地貸書不是免費的, 所以他還要付三萬塊錢給代書

Loans are not for free, so he had to pay 30,000 dollars to the agent.

 

am akma rana so sang am,

                       那個

mapa-gcin pa sira so itoro da   do ni-s-om-idong sir-owri    a  tao ang,

    扣掉        他們          他們          協助的          他們那些        

但是那樣的事情(十萬元), 他們還要從那得到的錢付一些給幫助過他們的人(代書),

But how could there be such a thing (100,000 dollars)?  They still need to pay the people who helped them (agents) with the money that they received.

 

20.01

所以你們想想看, 十三甲的土地, 我們原住民最後能夠花多少錢去經營它? 五萬塊錢

So think about it. 13 (hectares?) of land, and how much do we aborigines have left to spend on it?  That’s 50,000 dollars in total.

 

am ori o nak-nakm-en ta do akma sang

            想一想      我們           那樣

a rako  a  tana    ori do bonobonog         ang,

    大的    土地  那個      布農(原住民)

apira o ni-ma-hap da     do dang, alima laksa saon am,

 多少        得到的   他們        那裡                  

alima laksa o ni-pak-apia da    so sang a  tana  na,

                    改善         他們      那個      土地

所以你們想想看, 那些原住民這麼大塊的土地, 他們實際得到了多少? 五萬元而已, 用五萬元來改善(投資在?)那塊土地,

So think about it. Those aborigines hadso much land, but how much did they actually receive in return?  Only 50,000 dollars! Only 50,000 dollars was spent on improving (to make an investment in?) the land.

 

20.21

所以所謂的優越的土地權利, 我們不要學習像漢人一樣貸款我們要走出自己的一條路, 那一條路就是; 第一個, 土地雖然限制移轉, 不能够移轉給平地人, 它的土地價值很低, 但是我們要向政府要成立一個基金, 這個基金用來給原住民以後開發土地需要的資金不是按照土地來核貸金額, 而是按照它的經營計畫書,

Therefore, with the so-called superior rights of the land, we should not copy the Hans, but create our own path. That path includes: first, even though the transfer of land is restricted, cannot be transferred to the flatland people, and the value of the land is very low, we are going to ask the government to set up a fund. This fund would be for aborigines to use to develop the land, and instead of basing it on the size of the land, it would be according to the management plans.

am ori rana namen panic-an nia do seyvo an,

   那樣        我們     要說                政府

tosia rana o akma sang a vazay a,

不要                     那樣     事情

inio rana seyvo am, ma-ngata         kamo so nizpi an,

你們         政府            設置,專用的    你們         

akma sang a mi da   pa-mow-mowd-an

       那樣    他們    

no ji maka-nizpi a sancinosto

   賺到錢的        原住民族

a paci-angay-an tamo a tao do pongso ya,

        ... 一樣      我們              島上   

ma-moo-mood do seyvo so nizpi

                               政府        

a ipipa-‘agnat no kma so sang a tana,

        提昇                         那樣   土地

ya ji maka-nizpi-an  ori    ori   an,

         賺到錢的      那個 那樣

這些都是我們要跟政府談的事情, 好了, 我們不談那件事情了; 你們政府呢, 你們要成立一個專款, 做為那些不會賺錢(賺不到錢)的原住民來貸款用, 我們要向政府借錢來抬高土地的價值(投資土地),

All of these are issues that we need to discuss with the government. Ok, let us stop talking about this. You – the government, you should establish a special fund for those aborigines who can not make money (unable to make money), so they can borrow money. We have to borrow money from the government to raise the land value (for land investment).

 

21.14

這個是什麼意思呢, 就是說, 原住民沒有錢, 但是原住民有創意, 你的土地, 只要認為有經營的價值, 你做成本的分析, ()盈利的分析, 每年盈餘的分析, 然後你要投入土地的錢有多少, 然後做成一個營業報告書, 送請政府機關審核, 審核通過, 就按照你的成本計畫核貸給你金額,

What does it mean? That is to say, the aborigines have no money, but they are creative. So long as you think your land has enough value to manage, you should analyze the costs, profits, and surplus, how much of an investment you have to make, and make a business proposal to send to the government bodies to look over. After it is passed, they will lend you an amount of money according to your analysis.

o pey-pey-pangay-an na no nang am,

        意思                               那個

ji rana I ma-mood o sancinosto

                               原住民族

a paci-angay-an takamo a tao do pongso ya

       一樣       我們                  島上   

do pa-mow-moon-an so nizpi,

                                  

ta no mian rana so vatvatek   da rana nira a amowg-en da am,

                           ,記載  他們        他們        創造     他們

mang-amaog so sa vahey a, ori   o na   k-amowg-an a,

   創造,建造            房子     那是        建造的結果  

ori    o na ka-kci-kcin-an        no vaza-vazay am,

那個      步驟,分配的情形              事情

niz-nizpi koan na am, ori     o itoro do seyvo am,

                             那樣                政府

no cita-en da   rana ori am,

          他們       那個

“nona, ya pia rana ori” koan da am,

                          那個    他們

itoro da rana o nizpi, ori    o apia,

    他們                  那樣    

am ji rana  ngey do pa-mow-mowd-an so nizpi,

                              ....                      

ta  sira   ori  am,  akmey man-lin-lita sira   ori  am,

他們 那些                         陷害      他們  那些

ori    namen panci-an nia do seyvo,

那個 我們                           政府

iyan no nikata    no seyvo ya pa-mow-mowd-an no sancinosto,

            專用的        政府           ...                        原住民族

意思是說, 我們原住民不需要再跟銀行貸款, 因為若有計畫書,上有記載蓋房子的過程(設計圖, 構圖?) 以及各種工作內容, 金錢的分配等等,  拿給政府相關部門看, 他們看過之後, ,”, 的話, 他們就核給貸款, 這樣的話就很好, 也不必去跟銀行貸款了, 因為他們(銀行)好像是在騙人一樣, 所以政府最好能成立基金讓我們原住民有可貸款之處,

That is to say, we aborigines do not need to get a loan from the bank anymore because if there is a plan in which the course of building a house is described (design drawing, blueprints?) and the various steps to the building, the distribution of money, etc., when you show this information to the government, if they say,"Ok, you can do it," they will authorize the loan. That would be a positive step. You wouldn’t need to go to borrow money from a bank anymore, especially since they (the banks) seem to deceive people. Therefore, it would be the best if the government established funds so that we aborigines had places to get loans.

 

22.16

經濟發展的規則固定的, 第一個要土地, 第二要錢, 第三要技術, 原住民只剩下土地, 現在我們有很優越的土地, 我們從土地得到我們需要開發的錢,

The rules of economic development are fixed. First, you must have land; second, you need money; third, you need technology. The aboriginals only have land left. Right now, we have excellent land. From the land we can receive money that we need for development.

am ori an, na ka-tey-ma-kdeng no tana na ya an,

               非常重要                  土地  

ta o tana na a pansansahadan ori am,

   土地           本份?            那個

to mi-ngo-ngyod ori a   teyapia i-pi-ni-nizpi  an,

     變成              那個     最好的    賺錢用

si ka-tenng-an ta   ha-hapan ta    sia am, 

   知道          我們  用法      我們

amawg-an  ta     sia am, avayw-en takamo 

   創造,    我們               更新        我們

so pansanshadan ta    sia, i-hey-hakaw ta

                本份      我們       田地           我們

a  avayw-an tamo a pi-mey-masaod-an ta am,

       更新       我們          範圍,領域          我們

aro  ma-hap takamo dang a nizpi an,  

很多   得到     我們     那裡     

因此, 這個土地非常的重要因為土地的……, 會變成非常有用的錢, 我們若是懂得使用,開發, …., 我們就可以得到(賺到?)很多的錢,

Therefore, the land is extraordinarily important. Because land will become useful money. If we know how to use it, develop…. we can get (earn?) a lot of money.

 

22.50

第三要給大家介紹的權利是領域權,

Third, I’m going to talk about the right to territory. 

so ika-pinpin na rana no nang a,

         一回事                   那個

asa ka mocimot na     ili   tamo ya am,

          領域         部落  我們 

ma-hattaw tamo an,

   島嶼        我們

以上就說到這裡, 另外, 關於我們這個島上(領域),

That is all I have about that. In addition, about our island (territory),

 

23.03                                                           

什麼叫做領域權? 很簡單, 就是在原住民部落曾經統治過的地方,

What is the territorial right?  It is very simple. It means all places ruled by an aboriginal tribe, past and present.

ori rana am, o pey-pey-p-angay-an no akma so sang am,

那個                         意思                                       那個

 ilisan na asa ka ma-hattaw am, ilisan na asa ka ili     ori am,

  離開               島嶼               離開            部落 那個

ori rana o ya namen ika-ziak rana sicia-i-koa ya,

那樣                  我們    多嘴的              現今  

關於那個呢, 它的意思是說, …..一個島嶼, … 一個部落, 是我們現在關心的事情,

As for all of that, it means….an island….. a tribe. That is what we care about now.

 

23.24

這個地方所有的土地的利用, 不能夠違背原住民族傳統的文化, 還是禁忌等等,

Usage of the land here cannot violate traditional aboriginal culture, taboos, etc.

o ya namen rana ipanci do seyvo am,

        我們                要說          政府

akma sang a pongso a    da   lisanan a tao do pongso a,

       那樣      島國        他們    離開                島國

paci-angay-an namen a bonobonong   do ilaod ito  am,

   一樣        我們       布農(原住民)     台灣  那裡

no mian so gona-gonay-in nio dang am,

                 動到             你們 那裡

ji     nio gona-gonay-a, ta man-manma pa

你們                             較先         

o ka-pasi-siri-siring nio do tao na do kma so snag an,

           ...商議        你們                          那樣

ori     o namen pa-dket-en da-ang,

那樣     我們         登記          那裡

我們要跟政府談的是就是關於.......我們島上的...., 所有原住民的..., 你們(政府)若有任何要動到的地方(?), 你們必須先跟達悟族(原住民?)討論(報備?) , 這是我們要跟政府談的事情(登記?)

What we want to discuss with the government is about.... on our island .... all the aboriginal ... If there is anywhere that you (the government) want to do anything to (?), you must first discuss it with (report it to) the Yami (aborigines?). This is what we want to discuss with the government (register?).

 

23.51

所以像阿美族的青年集會所, 那個傳統的地方, 你就不能夠把它當成是商業用地,

Therefore, like the Amis youth hub, a traditional place like that, you can't regard it as a commercial article.

akma so da ka-loa-lovot-an no ivalangaw ori a,

           他們   聚會所                   阿美族    那個

aro a i-hey-hakaw no inapo da ori am,

很多     田地                  祖先 他們 那個

ji    nio  I  gona-gonay-a ori,    ta  ori am kaloalovotan da     pa  ori    am,

你們                         那個  那是             共有的    他們    那毎

ori    o pa-sir-sirng-an nio    pa jira,

那個        ...協商        你們    他們

ka-porong na rana no hahapan nio sia,

然後確認                      用途     你們 

am ori o namen ipanci do seyvo.

         我們       告訴        政府

,像阿美族的集會所, 他們很多的祖產, 你們(政府)不可以去動它, 因為那是他們族群共有的(土地), 所以你們必須先跟他們(阿美族)談好, 然後確定你們要做什麼用, 這些都是我們要跟政府談的事情,

And, like the Amis youth hub, they have a lot of ancestral property, and you (the government) may not touch it. Because the land belongs to the entire ethnic group, you must first negotiate with them (the Amis group) and be sure of what you want to do with it. All this is what we want to discuss with the government.

 

24.12

所以在這裡特別鼓勵大家, 為了落實我們的領域權, 我們一定要做好部落地圖,

Therefore, I would like to especially encourage everybody here – in order to give us our territorial right, we must make a good map of the tribe. 

am ori an, namen ka-ziak-an no kma so sang

           我們      ..辛苦                      那樣

a  aro a picey-li-li-an na  bonobonong       ya

   很多        各部落         布農(原住民) 

pacia-ngay-an  ta        tao do pongso ya,

   一樣       我們             島上    

 gazagaz-en nio o lig-liglig no ili      nio an,

     數算         你們       區域         部落 你們

ori     na pa-man-manda-n am, na ka-rako-rako no ili namen ya am,

那是          範圍                               約大              部落 我們  

segga-n nio a, ka-kma na mataig a, ka-ji     da    i nga-hap-an sia, 

  繪圖    你們    然後像     留下        他們                     

所以, 我們對於很多原住民的事情都非常的關心; 你們一定要數算你們部落的...., 比如領域, 部落的大小, 你們都要以繪圖方式來標記, 他們才不會隨便佔有;

Therefore, we are concerned about the issues of all aborigines. You must count your tribes’....such as territory, and size of the land, you must mark them in your pictures so they will not be able to occupy whatever they want.

 

24.39

第四權利要跟大家介紹的是教育文化, 這個地方啊, 我們現代教育法已經慢慢在改正,

換句話說, 在教育方面, 原住民除了要受一般的國民教育外,特別要保障它要接受本民族文化的教育,   

The fourth issue is culture & education. Here, in modern society, our educational system has been slowly improved. In other words, in education, the aborigines should not only receive a national education, but also make sure to receive local ethnic education.

ori       ori a, ya asa do dang am,

那是 那個                    那裡

namen ika-ziak do seyvo ya o  nanao-an da    so ka-k-anak-an ya,

 我們     很多嘴          政府                   他們          小孩子     

o da   ipanci do seyvo am, no da   nanao-en o ka-k-anak-an am,

  他們                政府          他們                     小孩子

“ji    nio   to nanao-a sira do i-wei-wa-walam nio a,

  你們              他們            習俗,文化      你們

da      na kato pima-karo-an do i-wei-wa-walam namen,

他們                 遺棄                       習俗,文化         我們

ciri-ciring namen a maka-kaday am,

    語言            我們         逐項

ya na toda kava-kava”,  namen ipanci do dang am,

               毁壞           我們       要說         那裡

 

taosia o kma so sang a, pi-wei-oli-in nio o ha-hap-an nio sia,

   不要               那樣         退回          你們      做法      你們 

ta no nanao-en nio     sira do cikok am,

              你們 他們         中國

nanao-en nio     sira do i-peypa-karang da an,

              你們 他們           使提昇           他的

… no ipa-pareng no tao sancinosto

             做法                    原住民族

a paci-angay-an nio a tao do pongso an”,

      ..一樣        你們              島上

另外, 我們要跟政府談的是, 關於小孩子的教育問題; 他們跟政府說, 當他們教小孩子的時候, “你們不要用你們的文化教育他們, 因為這樣, 他們都忘記了我們的語言,文化”, 這是我們要跟政府談的事情, “不要這樣的教育, 要回過頭來教傳統的東西, 因為你們若用中國的文化教育他們(受國民教育),  ...., 要教他們如何提昇原住民的...”

In addition, what we want to discuss with the government is children’s educational problems. They told the government, when they taught children, "Don't educate them with your culture because then they will forget our language and culture." This is what we want to discuss with the government. "Don’t give this kind of education. We should instead teach them traditional things because if you educate them with Chinese culture (receive national education),...., you need to teach them how to raise aboriginal (cultrure)..."

 

25.34

所以民族學校的設立, 非常非常的重要,

Therefore, the establishment of aboriginal schools is extraordinarily important. 

ori an, na  ika-kdeng no nang, ta    ik-amaog na am,

那樣       很重要            那個        使變      

iyan na pa no ma-vezed a ipa-pareng da    ciri-ciring da an,

              留下             做法          他們    語言,  他們

ciri-ciring nio an, ciri-ciring tamo a sancinosto ya an,

  語言,    你們       語言,    我們       原住民族  

因此這是非常重要的事情, 因為, 它的設立, 可使他們的語言, 你們原住民的語言得以留存,

Therefore, this is a very important issue because its establishment can preserve their language. Your aboriginal languages can be retained, 

 

25.50

在這次原住民專章裡頭, 原住民還有一個權利是非常重要的, 叫司法權,

In the special chapter for aborigines, aborigines also have a very important right called jurisdiction.

a cia-na rana ori a, ya pa mian dang so ya ma-kdeng am,

    好了          那個                那裡              很重要的

ori am akma sang  a da    pacici-an jiaten takamo am,

那個            那樣    他們     審問      我們   我們

akma so mikalsong ori      ori   a  da   vazay nira  ori,

              警察         那個 那個      他們  工作 他們 那個

另外, 還有一件非常重要的事情, 就是他們審問我們的地方, 像警察那樣的工作,

In addition, there is another very important thing: the places that they interrogate us, like the jobs that police do. 

 

26.07

第一個我們要求在法庭原住民有用自己母語訴訟的權利,

First, we require that we aborigines have the right to submitting a lawsuit in our mother-tongue in court.

o ya asa dang a ya ma-kdeng am,

            那裡           很重要

no m-angey namen do pacicician,

              我們              法院

no mian so ma-kdeng a yoko-yokod a,

             很重要的         議題

 

ka-ngey namen do pacicician am,

 然後去     我們              法院

amian dang so asa ka tao a makaskad

        那裡                       ??

so cirri-ciring namen a tao an,

      ,語言       我們      

apia-en nio yamen a mi-ze-ziak so cirri-ciring namen an,

 允許     你們   我們        講話                              我們

ta cirri-ciring namen saon o ipanci namen jinio am,

                  我們                        我們    你們

namen ka-tenng-an o cirri-ciring nio  a ciokok,

我們        知道                              你們    中國

ipong a akma sira am, ori no kma so sang a tao dang

日本             等等       那樣              那個       那裡

a maka-skad do cirri-ciring namen do pacicician,

       ??                                   我們             法院

ori    o namen pangay-in do dang a vat-vatek ang.

那個     我們                        那裡       

第一個很重要的是, 我們要去法院(原意為審問的地方)的時候, 如果有重大的議事(訴訟案?)而去法院被審問時那裡一定要有個會懂我們語言的人, 你要允許我們講我們的話, 因為我們只會用我們的話跟你們講, 我們哪裡懂國語,日語等, 所以法院一定要有一個能說我們語言的人, 這些都是我們關心的(要跟政府談的, 要立法的)事情,

First, it is very important that when we go to court (original meaning: the place for interrogation) because of an important issue (lawsuit?) that needs to be resolved in court, there must be a person who can understand our language. You should allow us to speak our own language because we can only let you understand in our own language. We don’t understand Mandarin, Japanese, etc, so there must be a person who can speak our language in court. We are concerned about all of this (we want to discuss with the government, issues that should be legislated).

 

26:42

第二,更重要的是原住民族有按照自己傳統社會規則接受裁判的權利,

Second, even more importantly, is that aborigines have the right to accept an arbitrator based on their own traditional social rules.

a ori       ori a, no mian namen do pacicician am,

   那個 那個              我們            法院

ji    nio    to  mi-ney-nakm-an o ha-hap-an nio sia,

你們        隨意決定                做法     你們 

ta   pa-nadnad-en nio o ipey-pa-pareng da  no tey-sa ka cipon-an,

      尊重              你們        習俗,文化    他們      每一          團體

a akma so tao do pongso ya an,

                        島上   

ya akanan so among ya am,

        吃法                

ya ha-hap-an so kay-kayo ya an,

        方法                木頭      

no mian so pa-sobna-n da    nira   orii a,

                反駁        他們 他們 那些

k-angay da do pacicician am, cita-en nio an,

然後去  他們         法院                   要看   你們

pa-nadnad-en nio an o ipa-pareng    da    nira ori    a,

   要尊重         你們           文化,習俗  他們 他們 那些

ji    nio  to  mang-ozay-i o ipa-pareng nio a  taiwan a,

你們       依照                文化,習俗 你們     台灣

m-angay omnek do ... do ka-ra-rat-an an.

              指定                    壞的方面

另外, 我們去法院的時候, 不要只照著你們的意思問(?),  你們一定要尊重某些團體的..., 比如像我們島上的達悟人有吃魚的文化, 取材的規則等; 如果有人有意見(要反駁的)而去法院(解釋?), 你們一定要尊重他們的文化, 不要只顧著你台灣人的(想法,做法?)而判定(人的罪), 

In addition, when we go to court, we do not want to just be asked questions based on how you want things done (? ). You must respect some groups’ ..., For example, the Yami on our island have rules for eating fish, getting materials, etc. If someone has a complaint (wants to refute) and goes to court (to explain?), you must respect their culture, and you should not judge us (our crime) based on your Taiwanese (ideas or methods?).

 

27.20

台灣的法律從來沒有照顧過原住民傳統的社會文化價值, 而台灣的法官也從來沒有去關心過, 去研究過原住民社會到底有什麼樣的傳統規範, 有什麼樣的規則, 現在我們要求, 法官有義務了解原住民族的特別的行為規則,

Taiwanese law never looked after traditional aboriginal sociocultural values, and judges from Taiwan have never cared or studied what kind of traditional norms aboriginal society has or what kind of rules it has.  What we are asking now is that a judge is obligated to know something about the special aboriginal rules of behavior.

o pacicician rana ya am, da     to    ng-imong-an  sira o taiwang ito,

      法院                        他們 一直    ...著想      他們    台灣     那個

a yaten takamo a  da   pi-metdeh-en ya am, da   pi-metdeh-en yatan am,

   我們    我們        他們   視若孩子的               他們  視若孩子的   我們

ori   namen panci-an nia do dang, o ya mapacici a tao ori am,

那個 我們        要說              那裡              法官            那個

amian pa dang so I pi-metdeh-en da   tao a m-angay dang am,

          那裡            視若孩子的 他們                   那裡

m-angay mapa-cici so asa ka tao, ta ya nio    picia-kaban-en o tao,

                審問                            你們       差別待遇           

ori o namen hap-en do dang,

那是   我們                   那裡

關於這個法院, 他們都站在台灣的立場, 而忽略了(不尊重)我們原住民, 這是我們要跟他們提出來的問題; 在法院裡, 希望有原住民 (不受重視的,不被尊重的人)的法官, 因為你們對人(審判)不是很公平, 這是我們的要求,

As for the court, they all take the position held by Taiwan, but they neglect (do not respect) us aborigines. This is the problem that we will put forward to them. In court, we hope there will be an aboriginal (person who is not respected) judge, because you treat (judge) people unfairly. This is our plea, 

 

28:05

我們要特別改善一個問題, 就是原住民發生問題, 永遠都拒絕上法院, 我們一定要改正這個問題,

There is a problem we particularly want to solve. That is, whenever something happens to the aborigines, they always refuse to go to court. We must correct this problem.

yaten takamo a sancinosto ya am,

我們      我們       原住民族 

tamo tey-k-aniahey takmao angay do pacicician,

我們      最怕              我們                     法院

am ji nio aniehey-an o akma sang a vazey an,

你們   害怕                   那樣    事情

ta yangay takmo an do pacicician

   帶去    我們                  法院

no mian so ma-lahet   a  yokoyokod an,

               不好的            議題

我們原住民呢, 最害怕到法院去了, 但是你們不要害怕, 若有發生什麼事情, 一定要去法院來解決,

We the aborigines fear going to court a lot. However, you should not be afraid. If something happens, you must go to court to solve it.

 

28.25

跟大家講個笑話, 原住民跟法院的關係, 原住民很, 到什麼程度, 都是法院請他過去的, 因為他被告, 他從來沒有主動到法院去來解決問題,

Let me tell you a joke about the relationship between the aborigines and court. The aborigines are very “self-important”. What do I mean by that? For instance, the courts have to invite him to come. Although he is a defendant, he has never gone to the court to solve the problem voluntarily.

amian so da   pa-ci-cici-n a sancinosto

            他們    審問             原住民族

a tamo paci-angay-an a tao do pongso a,

   我們        ...一樣                  島上

na ke-yan no kobong no pacicician

                 傳單             法院

a m-angay do ka-vahay-an am, da     ji 要管-a,

                          各家                 他們 

ta   ‘si      ni-要管ko am, makongo’,

   何必              我人        做什麼

sia     ji angey do pacicician

他們               法院

a maci-siri-siring do ma-kma sang

        ...講話                          那樣

a ma-kdeng a yoko-yokod da,

      很重要           議題          他們

當他們審問原住民, 且有法院公文到家裡的時候, 他們都不理會, “管它的, 又不會怎麼樣?” 因此不去法院解釋像一些很重大的事情,

When they interrogate aborigines and send subpoena to their homes, they always ignore them. "So what? It is not a big deal." Therefore they do not go to the court and explain important things. 

 

28.53

最後要跟大家介紹的是, 也是這一次專章(原住民專章)最重要的規定就是民族的自治權,

Finally, I am going to introduce the most important regulation in the special chapter (the aborigines’ special chapter), which is ethnic autonomy.

cia-na ori a, o yako ipanci rana siciaikoa ya am,

好了     那個            要說             現在

akma so sang a ipi-pa-pareng   da

            那樣        習俗,文化  他們

no kma  a sira    tey-sa ka ma-hattaw am,

               他們  每一         島嶼

sira   tey-sa key-li am, ipi-pa-pareng da    nira ori    am,

他們  每一     部落           文化,習俗     他們 他們 那些

akma so sang a pa-nadnad-en   nio   o kma sira    ori   an.

            那樣        要尊重           你們         他們 ,

好了, 現在我要講的是, 一些島嶼的做法, 或一些部落的做法; 當你們審這些島上的人,或部落的人的時候, 請你們要尊重他們

All right, what I want to talk about now is how some island or tribes do things. When you judge the people on these islands or the people of these tribes, please respect them.

 

29:16

我剛剛跟各位講了很多的權利, 這個都要透過自治權的整合, 才能夠獲得最大的實現,

Earlier, I explained a lot of rights to you, and all can be gained through ethnic autonomy, so they can be realized.

o aro a ko ni-panci ori     aro  a vazay ori  am,

  很多       說過的 那些 很多    事情   那些

no   si     ji-ng-yan do dang so akma sang a ma-porong a  

如果                    那裡               那樣        確定

akmi asa kamo rana, akmi asa tamo rana sancinosto ya

                                     我們           原住民族   

a da    pi-metdeh-en do akma sang am,

  他們    視若孩子的               那樣

ma-porong rana am, ika-tey-m-owyat na rana no nang am,

   ,                         因此非常有力的                  那個

so  k-asi-asi takamo so naken-akem a ji-aka-kagom am,

       可憐         我們                                   不團結

ji-akmi asa so ha-hap-an   sia am, ala   ma-salit,

不像                 做法                  可能  很困難

abo o oy-owyat da,    ta mi-sa-sazisay o  ha-hap-an sia,

沒有     力量       他們      分散                  做法         

我剛才講了很多的事情, 如果以上所說的, 沒有一個明確的....的時候, 你們要團結, 我們原住民要團結一心, 直到它實現為止, 那才會發生很大的效力, 如果我們不團結一心, 我們會是一個很可憐的民族, 也許會遇到很多的困難, 因為我們力量分散, 力量不集中

I told you a lot of things just now. If for anything I mentioned earlier, there is not a clear…, you have to be united. We the aborigines must stand together until it is realized. Then it will become effective. If we do not unite, we will be a very pitiful race. Perhaps we will face a lot of difficulties because we are scattered and our strength is not centralized.

 

 29.53

而且按照世界各國原住民族的經驗, 要對抗世界, 還是要受主流社會的同化, 只有靠自治這個武器,

Moreover, according to the experiences of aborigines around the world, whether to resist against or assimilate with mainstream society depends only on ethnic autonomy.

no si    kakday-in takamo o ka-bsoy takamo am,

如果   想要         我們         飽肚       我們

ka-ji takamo a zavoz-an do tamo yanan am,

  我們       不被混入       我們    在所

o ni-ma-kdeng na saon am, maka-kagom saon o teysa ka ili am,

    最重要的                             要團結                      每一       部落

tey-sa ka ma-hattow a, ma-ka-kagom a akma so asa so ha-hap-an sia,

每一            島嶼                    要團結                                做法         

ka-ji    da   maka-zavoz-an sira   ori ,

就不  他們      使混入            他們 那些

ta amian dang o ni-p-azat da ciri-ciring am,

        那裡        擋住     他們  

no m-ai sira  am, ciaha,    ta amian so akma sang

       他們       沒關係                       那樣

a yoko-yokod da    a pang-ozay-an   da    nira   ori am,

         議題        他們         可依据         他們 他們 那些

 ji    da rana gona-gonay sirowri,

他們                           他們那些

如果想要每個人都能吃飽肚子, 而且沒有其它外族摻入部落居住, 最重要的就是要團結起來, 不論是一個島, 或是一個部落, 團結一致是最重要的, 這樣就不會受外族的欺侮,因為恊議在前, 因此他們動不得....,

If you want everybody to have something to eat without other races coming to live with us, then the most important thing is to unite. No matter if it is an island or a tribe, being united is the most important. In this way, we will not be bullied by other races because before the negotiations, they dare not move.....

 

30:31

我舉一個很簡單的例子在台灣的法律, 其實是同化原住民最快的一個方法, 比如說排灣族是長嗣繼承, 但是民法規定是平均繼承, 結果這個平均繼承就把整個文化砍掉, 但是以後有這個自治以後, 原住民有一個自治權叫法律的補充變更權, 只要國家的法律跟當地原住民的傳統,習慣,價值有不一樣的地方, 我們可以把它改變補充,

Take a very simple example. The law in Taiwan is the fastest method to assimilate aborigines. For instance, in the Paiwan tribe the eldest child inherits everything, but civil law stipulates that all the children inherit equal shares. This equality in inheritance brings an end to the culture.  However, when we gain autonomy, the aborigines have the right to change or manipulate the law when it conflicts with tribal traditions.

ori      ori   a, o ya namen ipanci pa do seyvo

那是 那個               我們     要說          政府

a ya ma-kedeng a vazay do dang am,

         很重要            事情         那裡

ya aro o ipa-pareng takamo a   da    ji    pa-nadnad-a no seyvo ya,

    很多      文化,習俗  我們        他們          尊重                政府  

ta   da    to  ng-ap-a do da ha-hap-an sia am,

他們     取用         他們   方法       

namen ipanci o ka-tosia na no kma so sang a,

我們     要說         不要                      那樣

pa-nadnad-en nio  sira an,

   要尊重          你們 他們

還有, 我們要跟政府談的, 一個非常重要的事情是, 我們有很多的習俗, 他們都不尊重(重視), 他們都只用他們的方式來做事, 這是我們苟同的事情, 我們希望他們尊重,

In addition, what we discuss with the government is a very important issue. We have many customs, and none of them are being respected (payed attention to) by the government. They do everything their way, which we do not agree with. We hope we will get their respect.

 

(有一段無聲31:22-33),

si   blis-en rana o yokoyokod do taiwang ito,

   改變                 文化,習俗           台灣    那裡

si blis-en rana o kma so sang am,

  改變                         那樣

tana abo rana o 立法委員jinio a,

即使 沒有                              你們

tana ni-mian so 立法委員jinio am,

即使                                 你們

ji    da   pa-nadnad-a sira o 立法委員 dang,

他們       尊重          他們                   那裡

ta, o pa-nadnad-en da am, pi-key-kaygi-an nio a te-ysa ci-cipon-an am,

         要尊重的     他們           議會                你們    每一   團體

teysa key li      ang, akma so tao do pongso ya,

每一        部落                                島上   

tana abo    o 立法委員 nio a mi-key-kaygi ninio am, 

即使 沒有                     你們      開會             你們

to    sia   na ng-ai o seyvo a mey maci-siri-siring jinio,

  他們                  政府            ...協商        你們

Ta   abo rana o 立法委員 nio,

  沒有                             你們

ta akmi 立法委員  rana o ni-tenng-an nio

                                         指定的    你們

a pa-nir-sirng-en  nio do pongso  ya am,

          領袖              你氜         , 

akmi 立法委員 rana ori a mey …. Maci-siri-siring do seyvo,

                               那個                  ...協商            政府

si ma-porong rana o ha-hap-an sia am,

   確定                        做法        

ori    namen ha-hap-an sia,

那樣   我們     取用        

ta    sia  tey-ma-kasi sira o yabo so 立法委員a teysa ka ci-cipon-an,

他們    最可憐       他們    沒有                           每一         團體

ta   li-liket  a  ya pe-pereh a tao am, tey-ma-kasi sira ori am,

   小小                少數的                   最可憐      他們 那些

si ma-porong rana ori o ya   ta  akmi   mi-kaygi siciaraw ya

     確定                那個       我們         開會           今天

a tamo pa-mne-mnek-an ya a da abli-blis-en no seyvo ya am,

    我們       說定的                    他們    改變              政府  

tana    abo o 立法委員jinio am,

即使  沒有                     你們

o mi-mat-matngeh rana ninio a asa ka ma-hattaw am,

          代表                         你們                 島嶼

akma 立法委員rana ori    a  ikamo              da am,  

                                 那個    ...不好意思 他們

ji    nio    alaw-ei nia no ka-立法委員 na,  

你們     担心         

ta   ala     abo rana o ma-kma sira    ori,

可能  沒有                         他們 那些

ta   ji   da   rana ng-amizng-a sira   ori,

他們                            他們  那些

ta amizng-en da rana o akma sang

               他們                  那樣

a pi-key-kaygi-an nio a teysa ka cipon-an

        議會               你們    每一         團體

a paci-angay-an nio    a tao do pongso ya. 

       ...一樣       你們              島上   

如果台灣的習俗(?)要改變, 無論你們有沒有立法委員,他們不會尊重立法委員, 他們尊重的是你們每一個部落或島上的人的議事, 就算你們沒有立法委員代表你們的意見來開會, 也沒有關係, 那就叫政府直接來跟你們協商就好, 因為你們指定的(所選)領袖-立法委員, 就像......去跟政府協商,......., 這就是我們的想法。

因為我們是少數的族群,沒有立法委員, 很可憐, ........,。不要担心你們沒有立法委員, 只要你們指定的領袖可以代表你們島上(能和政府協商), 就可以了因為也許他們不一定聽立法委員的話, 但他們應該會聽(重視)你們會議上討論的事情, ........,

If Taiwanese customs (? ) are going to change, whether you have legislators or not, they will not respect them. What they respect are the issues regarding the people of the tribe or on the island. Even if you do not have a legislator who represents you in meetings, it does not matter. Then you just ask the government to consult directly with you, because you appointed (selected) a leader – the legislator, just like ......going to consult with the government, ....... This is what we think.

Because we are a minority without legislators, we are very pitiful, ........,. Don’t worry because you do not have legislators, as long as the leaders you appoint can represent your island (can consult with the government), then it is enough, Because they might not listen to legislators, but they should listen to (pay attention to) things which you raise at meetings, ........,